different from billoreilly.com. also we would like you to spout off about the factor from anywhere in the world. o'reilly@foxnews.com. name and town, name and town. if you wish to opine, the word of the day, do not be meretricious when write to go the factor. the spin stops here. we are dout for you. >> and this is a fox news word. north korea has fired a long range record. according to the south it's a defiant move days ahead of the presidential election. it's the second launch under the leader kim. it is not immediately clear if the pocket launch succeeded.

we will keep you updated on the story all throughout the hour. also breaking tonight, police say three people are goad including the gunman in a shopping mall shooting near portland, oregon. he was wearing a camouflage outfit and mask and shot off at least 60 shots. and we are also expecting a police news conference at 9:30. once that begins we will bring that to you live. meanwhile there's continued breaking news out of lansing, michigan where protest turned violent today as big labor demonstrators took to the streets of michigan's capital city in reaction to the passage of a bill that dramatically limits the power of unions n just a few short limits i'll be underlive by steven and he was viciously assault by a union member. he was standing near a tent that was owned by americans for prosperity, a conservative group

that supports the right to work. that tent, that organization, quickly became the target of angry union demonstrators. as you see, the lob of left wing thugs ultimately tore down the structure and they did so with people inside. however, what transpired before that is even more disturbing. let's take a look. >> what is it about right to work that you oppose so much? what is it about right to work? >> it's because it's the freedom to free load. >> they can suck all of the pair site cal benefits unions have negotiated and they have done it for free. >> get out of my face [bleep]. >> get out of my [bleep] face. >> you hurt nobody. get out of my [bleep] face. >> back off. back [bleep] off. >> okay. [chanting and yelling]

>> what are you going to [bleep] do? [indiscernible yelling. >> he's got a gun! >> i'll kill [bleep]. >> joining me now from michigan to talk about exactly what happened to the fox news contributor steven crowder. you got hit pretty hard. you have a chipped tooth and another injury. what happened? >> listen, i'm underrested, overworked and tough enough to take the union's greatest bun. i'm not hurt. it was more upsetting to get

home and see my wife upset. i went out there and the beating i got, completely physically unprovoked and the reason for that i went in and apparent will you i provoked it by asking them why they are against right to work. and what about somebody who might want to work for a company and might not want to join a union. and as they were consistently destroying private party with people in it. i asked them to stop. many of us tried to pull them off the tent. yes, in that sense apparently i did provoke the four unanswered punches to my face. call me a provoketor, sean. >> what a lot of people may not know, right to work means you don't have to join a union to get a job. in other words, you don't have to pay union deuce to work at a company. in other words, you have freedom

of choice so there's a lot at stake here. >> there's a huge amount at stake. you see most americans want the right to work. union, being a union manufacturing job, that's one of the biggest threats you can have to your job security. you look at the number of the manufacturing jobs shipped overseas in the union sector versus the nonunion sector. it's several fold higher. and to give you prove americans right now are angry by this, this video went out about 3:00, 4:00 today and there's already been $6,000 coming in in donations to find the perpetrator from this video. there's a lien drawn in the sand and there are republicans and there are true conservatives out there laying it on the line. you can side with the people or the talking heads sitting back in their political strategist rooms or side with the people like me that work with andrew bright bach and still do in death, it's a very serious line being drawn, sean. >> before we get into the

specifics, as we will do throughout the hour tonight, this is really important, walk our viewers step by step to what we are seeing in this video. because this is important. explain exactly what happened. >> okay. well, i can't see the portion of the video you are running right now. >>. >> walk us through the events. you know what's in the video. walk us through what happened. >> first off i went in, asked a few people why are you against right to work. people were immediately hostile, were immediately violent. i was near the americans for prosperity tent. they began tearing this tent down, tearing it apart while people were still in it. a tent by the way, sean that's correct can fit about 800 people. do you realize how long it takes? it wasn't they pulled out a tent. they assaulted tent and tore it down. we said there are women in here, old hemoin here, stop doing it. and it got more violent. >> were there women and old people in there when they collapsed the tech. >> you can see in this video a woman walking out as they are

tramling on the tent. there were women and old people in there beforehand before they started tearing it down. if some got out, i don't know. just like was i able to mitigate the injuries as this guy was waling on my face? absolutely. but that doesn't change the intent. i never went out to try to be assaulted, i went out to private left for who they are, union thugs. i want to say one thing importantly. i am issuing an ultimatum right now them are trying to find this man who assaulted me, to find the man who assaulted other people. you have a choice, can come forward, i'll press charges and you will go to jail or since you wanted to cheap shot me we can host a bout in a sanctioned legalized competition where the winner will get the money to go to the charity of your choice. it is your choice. jail or face me like a man one-on-one legally and i am easy to find.

>> i have known you a long time. you are well-equipped to protect yourself. you decided not to fight back. explain -- >> right. >> you do have the ability to fight back? >> yes. well, let me say a couple things. first, i knew it would prove nothing, and secondly, i don't want to use the word literal here because when people use the word literally and use is improperly, it makes me angrily, but i literally believe if i defended myself a lot or there was a small jab, they would have killed me where i stood. i have never seen this angry. you take a scene from "the dark knight rises" it it is not this. but, yes, i expected these people to actually tear me limb from limb. i knew i couldn't take that. on one person, fine. but three people is too many for anyone. let's to 1200 into the mix x by the way, are we not addressing the fact that someone threatened to murder me with a gun on that

tape, too? >> i heard that. it's at the end of the tape after the scuffle. now, there's a second moment the guy actually cold calked you when you weren't looking. at least from my view of the tape s that true? >> i have to be honest. i took his hardest hit on the jaw. my instinct is to mitigate dam. i said i'm going to let you go, please don't hit my. and i ran away and he sucker punches me. after that, i'm going to be honest. i was not playing tough guy >> i was out on my feet. i didn't go down. look at the tape some guy grabbed me by the neck as i was going into the tent and blanked me. it was a blur. i can't tell you. i know i was cold kocked and sucker punched. it went unconsed. maybe i deserve it, sean. >> i don't think you deserve it. but you didn't do anything to encourage this. and i have watched this tape a number of times. i didn't hear you say anything

provocative or start a fight. is there anything i didn't hear on the tape, just for the record? >> no. i did a lot to encourage it, sean. i asked them why they were against right to work. i asked them to stop hurting people in a tent. i asked them to stop destroying private property so i warranted getting a facial beating repeatedly apparently. >> i disagree with that. >> i'm saying that's the response from leftist. you went down and deserved it. we showed the loppinger footage. they were tearing down a tent. it is important to realize we were trying to defend people and women in that tent before they started assaulting people who were defending the women and old people in the tent. >> all right. when we come back, this is really important. steven, i'm glad you are healthy. take care, be careful in these situations, please. and we will continue to follow this in the days to come. and i'm glad you were able to make it on the show tonight. thanks for being with us. >> thank you, god bless average couple things. if the unions can take your money that you don't want to

pay, and they force you to join, and then they can don't nature it to the political party of their choice, is that legalized stealing in we had get into that debate. and we are following a lot of breaking news. new details. north korea as fired a long range missile. we will give you the details on that. three people are dead including a gunman in a shopping mall in portland, oregon. we have the late he felt on that. and we await a press conference. when it happens we will bring it to you. and the major victory for republicans in michigan as the busy news night continues here on "hannity." [ male announcer ] you are a business pro.

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is right for you. >> this is a fox news alert. police say at least three people are dead, including the gunman, and multiple wounded after a gunman opened fire in a shopping mall some portland, oregon. he was wearing a camouflage outfit and a mask and fired off at least 670 shots. we are -- 60 shots. we are specking a news conference the bottom of the hour and will bring it to you when it happens. today marked a major legislative victory for republicans in michigan but it was also a significant defeat for big labor and that movement in a state where unions have long reigned supreme. not even a last minute campaign-style stop yesterday by the president of the united states itself was enough to halt the momentum behind the right to

work movement. but liberals were out in full forced to following the loss. jesse jackson are demanding left wingers coast-to-coast rise up for a nationwide strike. that will really help the economy. take a look. >> the workers in the state must draw a line in the sand. that's why i am going to suggest a major one-day strike. a major one-day march on washington for jobs and justice. time for massive direct action to bring about the ship. >> all right. we are monitoring possible plans for such an event. no more details have emerged as of now but we will keep you posted. joining me to the reverend's comments and the events unfolding today, author of "suicide of a superpower." and clinton. guys, let's show what you happened on the state florida in michigan to the.

they said there will be blood. watch this. >> and we are going to pass something that will undue 100 years of labor relations. and there will be blood. there will be repercussions. >> there will be blood. lanny davis, you are a pretty left wing, you are a liberal. i assume a pro-choice liberal. let me ask you this because this is what it comes down to to me. if you can force people, workers, to join the union, and you can force them to pay deuce that they don't want to take, join a union they don't want to join, tell me how that's not legalized theft? because i view that as stealing if you are going to force people, you are pro-choice, to do something they don't want to do or they can't work. how do you support that as a pro-choice person? >> i will answer your question directly but i would like to condemn the violent attacks on anybody who dissents and i think i am pro labor and pro labor

movement but that was shameful and it makes us who are pro labor, who are democrats supporting organized labor ashamed that that kind of violence should be posted on somebody who is dissenting from the point of view. so to answer your question, the union shop requires everybody to either pay dues for the benefits they have negotiated or pay a substitute for the dues if they don't want to join the union. that's only fair so they don't get a free ride for the benefits negotiated through the union. but i believe in an election, and with a secret ballot, which is why i oppose car check. and if the workers decide by majority vote not to unionize, then they should have a right to do so. >> i appreciate your honesty there. pat buchanan, tell me where i might be wrong here. workers can't work unless they join a union. they are forced to pay. that money is used for political purpose which they may disagree

with, tell me how this is not legalized stealing or blackmail or use whatever term you want to use. >> i have personal experience. i joined the democrats in 1962 and i had to join the union within 60 days or i would be fired. now the union argues that, okay, even if we don't force you to join the union, you should be obligated to pay if you are not in the union and the union has negotiated august the contract and the benefits. that used to be called the agency shop. sean, that's what has been outlawed up there in michigan today. what that means is a lot of folks who have been paying dues to the union aren't going to pay them. secondly a lot of folks that are in the union say why should i pay dues to the union, why should i be long if i don't have to? this is a body blow to american labor. i think unseen in a long, long time. and to see it happen in wisconsin and indiana -- >> may i respond? >> go ahead. >> pat, you know that that we ae friends and i respect you. but the fact is that anybody who

wants to dessert guy and have an election, the majority rules, just as it does when we elect our elect tores in states. the most votes will elect a president in a particular state will get the electoral vote. >> lanny, let me stop you. >> wait a minute. >> no, no. you are missing the point. if you don't want to -- >> try, you don't have to -- >> wait a minute, hang on. there's no choice for people who want to work. you must join the union, you must pay money or you can't work. i thought you were pro choice? >> if you don't join the huber i don't know, i choose the option not to join the union, you have to pay something equivalent to the union deuce to pay for the benefits or you get a free ride. that's the concept, pat. that you have to be in the union, you can vote the union out by majority vote. >> this is exactly what i'm talking about. this is what we call an agency shop. you don't have to join a union,

but you do have to pay if the union negotiated your contract and you are getting the benefits mentioned, health and august the rest of it. that has been outlawed, though, lanny. they say you cannot require somebody to pay something to a union in which he disbelieves. you have the idea of individualism and freedom up against community and voluntary darety and equality. >> we have to take a break. hang on a second. stay right there. we have the white house's reaction today. do they condemn the violence? shockingly, they did not. we will have more and we are waiting a press conference on a shooting at a portland, oregon shopping mall. at least three people are dead, including the gunman. also tonight following another breaking news story, north korea reportedly launched a long-range rocket that. , and coulter and j. c. watts all coming up on a busy news night. [ male announcer ] when was the last time something made your jaw drop?

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conference coming up the top of the hour. we will bring you that when it happens. we continue with pat buchanan and our guest. we were asked whether the president condemns the violence deejay carnae take advantage of that opportunity to condemn it? let's listen. >> the president believes in debate that's, you know, civil. i haven't seen those comments and i'm not sure if it means what some would interpret it to mean. i just haven't seen them. you her the president talk about his views. he opposes the right to work views. they are more about the right to earn less pay than, you know, helpful to our economy. and he presented those views yesterday in michigan. >> i didn't -- i didn't see any shyness on the part of the president when it came to condemning a youtube video, lanny davis.

you think this would be a no-brainer for the white house to do exactly what you did on this program, condemn the violence that took place there today. >> look, first of all, i'm absolutely 100% certain that jay carnae did not see that tape and the president would not approve of that violence. secondly, the person that i saw engaging in that violence who appeared to be pro union aberration. most union workers are civil and peaceful and they should not be condemned because of that person. >> really? they knocked down a tent full of women. in is interesting to me, pat buchanan, because we saw the tea party events and there were accusations of racism and violence. why it s. it when we see movement to the left, the occupy movement or past labor movements or the g-8 summits, we see violence from the left but the not the right. why is that? >> there is a horrible double

standard now. why is the democratic party not held to account? if the tea party had marched into the legislator like that, riot activity, cursed people out, beat them up, they would say what's that the tea party represents. >> just a second. they are pushing down a tent that has women and apparently some elderly people in there u see them pushing it. >> it's absolutely terrible. i agree with pat. and there shouldn't be a double standard and i've seen violence on right -- >> where have you seen violence on the right. >> the extremists that the tea party sessions about obamacare. >> where was there violence at a tea party event? >> i never extrapolated it. >> refresh my memory. when specifically? because there are all these false allegations about racism at tea party rallies, false allegations about -- >> go ahead, pat. >> the real question will be what we see tomorrow and the

whole country sees this, let me athis, i'm not anti-union at all. i still belong to one and i like the union." but this discredits the entire union movement. it is criminal activity, it is stupid, it is destructive to the reputation of the union, destructive to workers. ronald reagan was a union leader, a proud one. the screen actors' guild. i don't think he would con cone this and neither should the democratic party today. >> no one is condoning the violence but no one is saying these nonrepresentative extreme people represent the entire labor people. i think these are be a bore rags. >> what did we see in wisconsin. >> and we should condemn it on the left and the right. we are consistent on that. >> lanny, they inveighed the legislator of wisconsin shouting and hollering when from the balconies. if conservatives did that in the u.s. capitol, they would go to jail. >> i think they would both be wrong and i agree with you it

hurts the labor union. as a pro labor democrat that's correct kind ever activity doesn't persuade undecided people. it turns off those people. so are they are hurting the labor movement by that kind of action. >> thank you both. >> thank you. >> i'm going to proven this point tomorrow night and i'll give you all the instances where the left has used violence and extreme rhetoric and then we will compare it to some of the tea party rallies. if you have a specific instance, you have my e-mail, private. >> i do have your right e-mail. i don't say it on television, though. >> i appreciate that. j. c.uous will be up next. and we continue to monitor north korea missile launch they had earlier tonight. and we will head back to michigan with a live report of today's battle of the right to bourque unfolds. and we are awaiting a live news conference regarding the mall shooting in portland, oregon. three people are dead, including

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so ask your doctor about tamiflu. prescription for flu. >> no rounds fired by law enforcement today in the mall. again, we are wrapping up our search of the mall and releasing everybody from the scene. we have a lot of work to do of gathering witness statements before releasing people. be patient before we get everybody released from the mall and still if you have questions contact the sheriff's office. i will like to introduce the sergeant from the sheriff's office. >> i've been in contact with the mall management. they have said that they are going to be posting information for businesses, employees, and customers who were affected by this incident on their web page. you can find it on the internet. the mall is going to be remained close for the rest of this evening and as long as the police investigation goes on it will remain closed, as well. we do not have a timeline for that. people who have stuff left

inside the mall, check the clackamas web page how to get it back. your property is secure tonight. process will be developed on how to get that back to you. family members, once again, if you are still looking for somebody, be patient. with the two people deceased right now, their family members are being contacted currently. if you haven't been contacted soon, chances are your family member is not one of those people deceased tonight. the next press conference that we have and all future releases of information, any interviews are going to be done at the brooks building, clackamas county sheriff's offices. that address is 9101 southeast sunny brook boulevard. we have a joint information center there that the media will be able to broadcast from. once again, all further

information released and interviews will be done there. at 8:00 sheriff roberts is going to be there for a live press conference. now open it up to questions. >> this is a random act. do you think it's random? >> any information about the actual investigation is not going to be appropriate to release right now. i wish i could answer those questions but it just wouldn't be appropriate right now. >> talk about how the mall dealt with this. did they do everything that they were supposed to in situations like this? >> i don't have -- i was not here. i don't know what they did. i know we got many calls from 911. the clackamas town center security guards and employees all did the prop perhaps things. i heard many people locked in place, many people ran. those are the two most appropriate things to do in these circumstances. >> do you have information about the two victims. >> i don't have any identifying information about them.

>> did the gun jam? can you confirm that. >> i don't have any information about the investigation. that goes to the same thing. can't gave information. >> the number of people injured? >> that number. that's law enforcement in a press conference with details of the shooting that took place earlier today in portland, oregon. three dead, including the gunman. there will be another press conference about 8:00 eastern, 11:00 pacific time. we will cover that later on on the fox news channel a short time ago governor rick snyder signed into law the controversial right to work bill that spark mass protesting and demonstrations across michigan. we showed you the violent scenes earlier, including the assault by union thugs. today's big win by republicans makes michigan the 24th right to work state in the country. we go to our own mike stand big in lansing tonight. mike. >> sean, it's pretty tom here right now.

the demonstrators and lawmakers have gone home. legislative part of this battle is over. governor rick snyder explained a little more than three hours ago why michigan is now a right to work state. >> for two very strong reasons. first of all, worker choice. freedom to choose and the concept of more and better jobs for our state. i think it was a good thing to sign this legislation and move forward. >> now, the concentration of the trouble was at that tent here on the capitol grounds. there was one report of an individual being pepper sprayed and that's someone, according to reports, was attempt to go manhandle a female state trooper. no' rests. a lot of sound and fury. that's the only option the unions had. governor snyder had the luxury of studying what happened in wisconsin, ohio and indiana. he left his opponents without a counter punch. this was over and done with in less than a week. very unlike the long, drawn-out standoff we saw in wisconsin.

unions right now are being intentionally vague, as well as the democrats as far as what they will do next. they are exploring legal options as far as how they can challenge the law in court. they are looking toward the next election and they are talking about recalls. sean. >> great work today for the fox news channel. joining any with reaction of all the events, author of "mugged" the always outspoken ann coulter. you wrote another book about liberal mobs destroying america. look at the scenes we saw. what is your reaction to my argument that this is legalized stealing if you are allowed to force people into unions, force them to pay. what happened to pro-choice on the left side? >> no, pro-choice means one thing, ripping a baby sleeping peacefully in the mother's woman out of the womb. that's pro-choice. and the union shop, and you are while you are getting all the benefits of the union, some

people don't want those benefits and i apparently many of the ones left behind in michigan, and there aren't that many left behind because the state has been so destroyed, don't want the union pause they prefer to have jobs. they don't have jobs in michigan. do you know, by the way, this someone of my candidates for president, rick snyder. he's a magnificent governor and bless the legislator. detroit used to have millionaires than new york. it it was a beautiful city. they almost had the eolympics there. you can see the videos of what detroit was like. first it was dried by the mob with the race riots. then it was destroyed by the unions driving the jobs abroad. and people have the precise numbers on this. the amount of money you paid for a car that is paying for pensions of people who retired five years ago that's correct is a do youing state. one of the most beautiful states in the union and that's what happens. >> let me answer your great point. this is true. right now detroit is on the verge of bankruptcy.

one of america's great cities. they have lost half their population. can go on the internet. i urge our viewers to go out there. you can buy homes in detroit for a thousand dollars. last time i was there, it was shocking how one boarded up house of a another. it almost looked like new orleans of a hurricane katrina. so this is the result of what, long-term democratic rule? >> it's mob violence and capitulating to the mob. it looks like the arab street. where are the cops? why aren't they being arrested? as pat said, when they are screaming from the rafters, why is there any arrests in the actual michigan state house. michigan has become a state like cuba. all the people who want to work have left the work. not all, there are a few left behind. but these are people, this mob cannot learn. they would put their hand on a burning fire over and over again. they haven't noticed by

supporting these unions they have lost the car companies, they have lost jobs. >> let me take a break. when we come back, i want to specifically ask you, why is it the occupy movement why is it thenion events? why is it always the left with the violence? and then the media silence. >> oh, yeah. >> we will get to that double standard and also tonight there's breaking news out of north korea. the rogue regime has announced moments ago others rocket and satellite launch were in fact a success. however tonight south korea is still investigating. we will have more as we continue. ann coulter continues with us, as well as the former as well as the former congressman watts straight ahead [ malennouncer ] it's tt time of year again.

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and more on michigan. i'm a little tired after double standard. republicans, they don't like women, war on women. a phony war on women. the race card is used against conservatives, against the tea party. we will put you back in chains. all of these charges that are false. every time you look at wisconsin, you look at michigan, you look at the occupy movement, you look at the g-8 summits,a of these things, it's the left and they are violent. >> yes. it's in their nature and you are part of it is encouraged by the double standard. you admit they are never held to account. whereas a republican, i mean, they are constant -- conservatives are constantly being watched and falsely accused of engaging in violence, as you were saying. >> and every time ann coulter speaks on a college campus. and as i pointed out, the ivy leagues treatment me like a dream and that's true, actually. >> they are more respectful. >> yeah, yeah.

it's the ones where they aren't smart enough to formulate a statement which feeds into why so much of the left behaves like a mob, as i described in my book. it all goes back to the left burst in the french revolution. and they are a a mob movement. it is hope and change and we are going to man the barricades and we demand change right now. whereas republicans we always kind of make fun of it. there are republican congressmen on the house floor with their pointers and explaining if we do this the consequence and the unintended results and they are always now,we want it now. >> but when you watch the steven crowder video we had at the top of the program tonight, it is not a pushing match. he is getting called every name in the book. he's asking a simple question about a topic and the right to work. >> right. >> which basically forces people into unions that they don't want to join, paying fees they don't want to pay, supporting political parties they don't want to support. >> yes, yes.

>> look at this. now watch the violence here. when you see this, what do you think? >> i can understand why companies are sending their manufacturing to china if this is the sort of workers they are getting. do these people have families? the man, you are blooping them out. i have watched the video several times. >> and watch the tent in the background. >> i know, and he uses the f worked over and over. does he have a wife or daughter or any relatives or neighbors that are watching him behave this way? the cold-cocking. >> and boom. >> shocking. most the times he's holding his hands up to show he's peaceful. this is the left this america and unfortunately a lot of michigan has become that way, why is why most of the michigan anders you meet, you meet after they leave the state. because if there is ever going to be a change, if michigan will be saved and not become worse than greece, it will be because of the governor snider and the

republicans. >> and the president went there jed and a made his public comments. these are his supporters. >> oh, yes. >> he appeals to the union workers. >> well, beyond him not condemning it, why is he supporting a system that has led to no jobs in that state? the state is bankrupt. it is detroit. you don't -- >> next question. is michigan a preview of coming attractions for america because of democratic policies? because that is the outcrop of what happened in michigan. >> we have a series of greeces around the country. and one piece of good news is probably the first state to go bankrupt is california. california is so left wing, they could never elect a republican governor. neither republicans or democrats have an incentive to bail it out so i don't think we will see a federal bailout. fortunately california will go first and probably not michigan. >> ann coulter, great to he sue. >> last show of the year. see you next year, sean.

>> very early in the year. thank you. coming up, more on the situation on the ground in lansing, michigan where today's protests turned violent of that governor rick snyder signed the right to work bill limiting the power of unions. a historic day. and when we come back, jc watts is considering a run for the republican national committee. republican national committee. he will join us next it's hard to see opportunity in today's challenging environment. unless you have the right perspective.

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from president obama against the bill. this marks a major shift of momentum for the >> states all over america are forced to deal with crippling debt and reckless spending. here to comment on that by the man who is rumored to be running for the chairman of the republican national committee. former congressman j.c. watts. >> i'm doing will. >> your sooners got a bowl game in memphis this year. congratulations. >> well, it's actually the tulsa hurricane. the sooners are going to be in dallas, versus johnny football -- >> sorry, i messed it up.

>> that's okay. i forgive you. >> notre dame is going to beat alabama -- we have that in the "hannity" household. >> your wife's probably going to win that argument. we are wasting time. are you running for chair of the rnc. >> i heard an rnc member say, you know, last weekend, said, you know, unfortunately, he said, we have had one black guy in the chairmanship. we have been there, done that. we don't need to go there. this is never -- i have never said that you needed a black person there. i never said you needed a white, red, yellow or brown -- or even a female. you said, you need someone sitting in that chair that understands the val of growing deeper relationships with -- with voters, especially non-traditional voters. you mentioned in your earlier segment with ann, how republicans are made to be racist or anti-woman, or whatever the case might be. it's because we don't have these

deep relationships that grows a credibility that sean and j.c., we can say, you know, that's j.c., he didn't mean anything by that. i can say, that's sean, didn't mean anything by that. i know him. until we do that, i think we will continue to be marginalized. >> we have been friends a long time. i remember when you were in congress, you lived through this -- republicans want to throw granny over the hill and kick her out on the streets. isn't part of the problem that the democratic playbook to smear republicans works? >> oh, no question. it's a part of the play book. i think the way we -- we defend ourselves and the way we retaliate is the same thing that we used to do in locker rooms. you know, my white friends would say things to me, i would say things to them that would probably seem politically incorrect on the streets or on this show.

but by the same token, they could say ti could say it because we had relationships. and again, i think that something that we have to consider -- and when we have our people saying stupid things like this guy said about a week ago, that just mays right into what -- what the democrats' play book, in saying they don't get. >> it yeah, what was your reaction when you saw this tape tonight -- and there are a lot of movements on the left and that have this violent streak. what is your reaction to that? >> well, sean, i don't think you ever have the right to be violent, even if things are not going your way. you know, reverend king was the master of nonviolence. and i thought they reacted the wrong way. there is a process that you undertake in order to retaliate. it's not to do what we saw happen at that young man on your show